tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post116857690036426986..comments2024-01-02T17:48:07.739-05:00Comments on The Little Green Blog: Personal Vendetta Puts Ridiculous SA Coup in the WorksNathan Bruschihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01335558831525808820noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1169004031237054092007-01-16T22:20:00.000-05:002007-01-16T22:20:00.000-05:00Why? So the Seal can look up disciplinary records ...Why? So the Seal can look up disciplinary records and publish them on his blog? Or incriminating college photos? Nope, I think that discretion is the smarter choice there, ace.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1169001587603283352007-01-16T21:39:00.000-05:002007-01-16T21:39:00.000-05:00It'd be really fucking cool if some of these anony...It'd be really fucking cool if some of these anonymous posters had the balls to say how they feel under their own names.Brendon Bouzardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126191964986064407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168987533877976982007-01-16T17:45:00.000-05:002007-01-16T17:45:00.000-05:00I think Andrew should be highly commended for bein...I think Andrew should be highly commended for being brave enough to stand behind what he thinks, and for questioning our assumptions about how our campus is running. Obviously he has hit on a point of contention that needs to be addressed, otherwise he would be ignored, and clearly from all the comments this blog gets, that is not the case. Andrew, I think you are doing a good thing for our campus and I hope you keep doing it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168963966017784652007-01-16T11:12:00.000-05:002007-01-16T11:12:00.000-05:00I haven't denied it; in fact, I've explicitly affi...I haven't denied it; in fact, I've explicitly affirmed it. You apparently haven't read my most recent post:<BR/><BR/>"I am not denying the existence of people who genuinely do want to help the school nor the possibility that some of these people may disagree with Tim."<BR/><BR/>http://thelittlegreenblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/further-developments.htmlAndrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10819056627072965519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168960886167755672007-01-16T10:21:00.000-05:002007-01-16T10:21:00.000-05:00Andrew, It is almost comical how you continue to ...Andrew,<BR/> It is almost comical how you continue to deny there could possibly be rational motives to impeach Tim. Your failure to see past this "personal vendetta", which you yourself have created, is showing your inability to clearly think through the situation. You aren't a whistle blower or holding anyone accountable but instead making a fool out of yourself. It is very clear to those who are commenting on your blog, why is it not clear to you is the telling question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168959269518141702007-01-16T09:54:00.000-05:002007-01-16T09:54:00.000-05:00Seal wrote: "If Adam is liberal, I guess that make...Seal wrote: "If Adam is liberal, I guess that makes me a fucking flame-throwing anarchist."<BR/><BR/>No, you're not Mikhail Bakunin, dude, you're a fucking nose-picking blogger who won't admit he's in over his head.<BR/><BR/>Get over yourself, boy of destiny.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168956445221117262007-01-16T09:07:00.000-05:002007-01-16T09:07:00.000-05:00As regards Seal's last comment, as to the impeachm...As regards Seal's last comment, as to the impeachment drive being "illegitimate" because it was initiated by Shpeen's justified personal problems with Andreadis:<BR/>1) It's a "political" issue too, as far as inter-SA relations go. Shpeen is a good example of the typical, "ggod" SA member who actually tries to get a few things done, no matter if the President is a religious and political conservative or an unorthodox liberal. He deserved better treatment and the SA leader, and President of the Student Body, is obliged to give credit where credit is due. <BR/>2) Is Adam's cause illegitimate? You seem to think so. But how about everyone else's motivation? Can you look beyond your fondness for Tim and appreciate that a bona fide SA change is happening again? Yes, Adam has shown leadership on this issue, but his leadership does not in any way make this an illegitimate movement.<BR/>3) If Andreadis were better at his job, this would not become the only thing he will be remembered for, like Hildreth was remembered for being pushy and controlling or Janos for being an out-of-control rage siren, or Noah Riner for being a Christian who made a nutty speech. Andreadis will now be marked as the guy who went and tattled the administration that Shpeen had some drinks in the SA office with a couple of peers. His efforts to better the campus will now be marred by his inability to pick his battles and his inability to get along with his fellow classmates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168953920798463222007-01-16T08:25:00.000-05:002007-01-16T08:25:00.000-05:00300 am - I don't know if you didn't read prior com...300 am - I don't know if you didn't read prior comments, but I addressed this previously in my comment @ 11:52 -- "My point is not that these people like Tim and have been brainwashed by Adam, but that this move to impeach Tim was initiated because Adam wanted to even a score." <BR/>Have you heard of pretext? I recognize that many of the people I starred have different motivations for disliking Tim than does Adam. I actually have recognized this in print now a few times. What I also recognize is that Adam started a concerted movement which would have been otherwise unlikely to have happened because of a personal vendetta. I am calling the movement illegitimate not because I think everyone has identical motives, but because the movement has an illegitimate origin—Adam's anger at Tim. Adam brought people together to fulfill a wish, not to help SA, not to help the school. That origin is what I'm criticizing.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10819056627072965519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168934408939898852007-01-16T03:00:00.000-05:002007-01-16T03:00:00.000-05:00Seal, I am unable to understand why you are convin...Seal, I am unable to understand why you are convinced that Adam's "coup" is based entirely on his personal rivalry. This is not at all logical. Why would a large group of individuals, regardless of their friendship with Adam, attend three SA meetings in order to do him a favor? Word on the street is that SA meetings are not the most enthralling events, and everyone knows Dartmouth students are busy. The point is this: students, whether close friends or frat brothers, would never waste their time on this if it was not something they felt strongly about. It does not seem to me that Adam's alleged issues with Tim must exclude the possibility that many people are upset with Tim. In fact, his "coup" would not have a chance if it were not for the frustrations of many students. So to say that this "coup" started out isolated from these opinions about Tim's presidency is completely false, and indeed, the very discussion of Tim's performance is absolutely relevant. Your inability to comprehend this seemingly obvious point may be based on your alliance with Tim or it may be due to your refusal to accept that Adam did not brainwash all of Chi Gam, but either way, it is detrimental to the discussion of what actually matters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168929216628850392007-01-16T01:33:00.000-05:002007-01-16T01:33:00.000-05:00126 - If Adam is liberal, I guess that makes me a ...126 - If Adam is liberal, I guess that makes me a fucking flame-throwing anarchist. <BR/><BR/>As for your other point, though--maybe the discussion on this blog has turned into evaluating Tim's job performance, but that's not how Adam's coup started out, and that's what I reported on in the first place.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10819056627072965519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168928810090393182007-01-16T01:26:00.000-05:002007-01-16T01:26:00.000-05:001218 - you're going to have to format that a littl...1218 - you're going to have to format that a little better. i'm not going to bother reading that spew.<BR/><BR/>1220 - maybe you're missing my point. I am not suggesting that we prevent democracy from happening by disenfranchising Reviewers. That's stupid, and ridiculous of you to try to pin that on me. I'm just saying that the grounds for this effort are illegitimate, that the reasons for attempting this are bad. I haven't challenged their ability to do this, just their reasons for doing so.<BR/><BR/>101 - I think you missed the point of the list. The names with the stars next to them are the people I'm identifying as likely those whom Adam has enlisted. The whole list is just the attendance roll for the last meeting. It's not likely that Tim (who's on the list) is part of the cabal, for instance.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10819056627072965519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168927994306258802007-01-16T01:13:00.000-05:002007-01-16T01:13:00.000-05:00If we're making liberal/conservative distinctions,...If we're making liberal/conservative distinctions, I also think that it's worth pointing out that Adam Shpeen is one of the most liberal people on this campus. <BR/><BR/>Currently Tim would probably win the "Most Visible Liberal SA Member" Award. But before Time was ever involved with SA, people associated that with Adam.<BR/><BR/>This isn't a political idealism debate, like the Alumni Constitution was. It isn't about the broad direction of Dartmouth. It is a mere issue of competence, effectiveness, and ethics. Tim has markedly failed on all three counts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168927288062363642007-01-16T01:01:00.000-05:002007-01-16T01:01:00.000-05:00Andrew, there are a lot of people on that who have...Andrew, there are a lot of people on that who have no association with Chi Gam, the Review, or SA, and in fact aren't even conservative. i would guess they want Tim out for similar reasons as everyone else, and those reasons have little or nothing to do with Adam ShpeenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168924810328232592007-01-16T00:20:00.000-05:002007-01-16T00:20:00.000-05:00"If there are people who have legitimate reasons f..."If there are people who have legitimate reasons for wanting to remove Tim, Reviewers and Chi Gams aren't them.<BR/><BR/>"Clear?"<BR/><BR/>No. In a democracy you don't have a say because you're good. You have a say because you show up. To your mind, that must be hard to fathom.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168924688283192242007-01-16T00:18:00.000-05:002007-01-16T00:18:00.000-05:00Seal, let’s go through this bit by bit.You know, m...Seal, let’s go through this bit by bit.<BR/><BR/>You know, my life actually hasn't gotten any worse because of this hypothetical laxness in SA this term under Tim's leadership. [Perhaps you weren’t disciplined because Andreadis turned you because of some sort of animosity. More importantly, who gives a shit about your life as a measuring rod? Presumably you wrote on this blog to convince people. So you raving about your quality of life doesn’t do much. You have to address other people’s problems.] On the other hand, if Tim is removed, SA's going to go in the shitter fast and no one will get any of their services. [Bullshit. What a flimsy fucking argument. You probably realized this was wrong as soon as you posted this message. There are plenty of competent people under him—people who are MORE competent than he is who care more about providing student services than whining about the Dartmoose.]<BR/><BR/>But the point is, even if some things may have slipped [What the fuck does this even mean?], people only want to impeach Tim because of what he talks about and who he calls out. [Yes, presumably these are legitimate grounds for grievance. And impeachment rests on the number of people present. Timmy is trying to save his own ass by changing the rules. Pathetic. If there’s one defining feature of Andreadis, it’s not “radical” like he’d like to believe, but “childish.”] People on this comment board have already paired the two of us, so I feel somewhat justified saying that Tim and I are unpopular in some places on campus merely because we aren't afraid to call out shit on this campus when we see it [The fact that people have paired you on this board in no way justifies you in saying that you’re hated because you “call people out.” Learn basic logic. What people object to is when you proclaim your views and then expect to be followed like the pied piper. Sorry, dude: I don’t know how old you are, but not everyone is going to agree with you. Maybe you’ll learn that someday.], and we're not afraid to hold specific people accountable for the shit they do. [Yeah, you’re very brave here with your blog. A fucking hero.] Yeah, our views about campus issues differ widely from a significant number of frat brothers and Reviewers, but so do a lot of people. The difference is, Tim and I don't just shut up about it and complain about it to our friends. [That sucks. There’s a silent majority, but they’re too yellow to speak up. Only you, Seal, in this sea of ignorance. It’s a great story, do you whisper it to yourself at night as you fall asleep? Or could it be you don’t know shit about this particular instance but just happen to find most of the campus ungrateful, after you gave them the gift of fire, kind of like Prometheus?]<BR/><BR/>If that's self-righteousness, fine--I plead guilty. [An interesting tactic. Let’s see where it takes you.] Many of the comments on this page show exactly how unabashedly assholic a number of Dartmouth students are. You're just underlining my points. [Oh, I see. Again--the peasants are just terribly ungrateful for what you’ve done on their behalf. If they’d only implement your plan everything would be great. Another thing: Dartmouth, frat boys, the Review - - did you want to go to Dartmouth? Presumably you knew these things were here. Where did you want to go to school? Princeton? You think if you’d gone there you’d be hailed as the fucking messiah? If this is how you think, you’re gonna have a disappointing life. Let’s start with your first job out of college, when you’re ready to leave the non-assholic world of Dartmouth, and you encounter people who don’t say ‘how high?’ when you say ‘jump.’ Assholes! Fuck ‘em! You have fun with that, dude. Maybe you can start a list and put asterisks next to the names of people you don’t like.]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168923175937368802007-01-15T23:52:00.000-05:002007-01-15T23:52:00.000-05:00last anonymous: here's the thing. Adam has a perso...last anonymous: here's the thing. Adam has a personal vendetta. There are other people who don't like Tim but who independently have done nothing about it and probably wouldn't think to join forces and blockrush SA if Adam didn't suggest it, coordinate the efforts, and actually recruit people, trying to convince them to come along for the ride. My point is not that these people like Tim and have been brainwashed by Adam, but that this move to impeach Tim was initiated because Adam wanted to even a score And the people who are joining up aren't even interested in SA--they're interested in harassing a person they don't like and removing him from a position that allows him to call them out for their actions. If there are people who have legitimate reasons for wanting to remove Tim, Reviewers and Chi Gams aren't them. <BR/><BR/>Clear?Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10819056627072965519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168922492876673812007-01-15T23:41:00.000-05:002007-01-15T23:41:00.000-05:00Sorry, I still don't get it. You make a very conc...Sorry, I still don't get it. You make a very concerted effort to show that a number of people showed up and that 8-10 of them are connected to Adam Shpeen, while a handful of others are ideologically conservative. You then go on to say that all of these people are motivated by a personal grudge on Adam's part. But the conservatives obviously couldn't give a shit about the feud--they probably just dislike Andreadis. So, most are there because they actually don't like Andreadis as SA Pres and others <I>might</I> be motivated by the personal feud (I'm not completely convinced by the word of sources who may or may not be connected--can we please hear something about their connection to this whole thing?). How do the actions of these 8-10 guys make the story that the personal vendetta is behind the whole thing? Shouldn't it be that conservatives have been mobilized against Andreadis, while a few others have joined because of a personal vendetta (even if that is true)? Seems like Seal is manipulating specifics of this story to belittle it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168922073873712982007-01-15T23:34:00.000-05:002007-01-15T23:34:00.000-05:00Seal you're the exact reason people don't want to ...Seal you're the exact reason people don't want to come to Dartmouth. You define the word "Dingle Berry." Look it up on Wikipedia and you will see a picture of yourself....seriouslyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168921115368979742007-01-15T23:18:00.000-05:002007-01-15T23:18:00.000-05:00You know, my life actually hasn't gotten any worse...You know, my life actually hasn't gotten any worse because of this hypothetical laxness in SA this term under Tim's leadership. On the other hand, if Tim is removed, SA's going to go in the shitter fast and no one will get any of their services. <BR/><BR/>But the point is, even if some things may have slipped, people only want to impeach Tim because of what he talks about and who he calls out. People on this comment board have already paired the two of us, so I feel somewhat justified saying that Tim and I are unpopular in some places on campus merely because we aren't afraid to call out shit on this campus when we see it, and we're not afraid to hold specific people accountable for the shit they do. Yeah, our views about campus issues differ widely from a significant number of frat brothers and Reviewers, but so do a lot of people. The difference is, Tim and I don't just shut up about it and complain about it to our friends. <BR/><BR/>If that's self-righteousness, fine--I plead guilty. Many of the comments on this page show exactly how unabashedly assholic a number of Dartmouth students are. You're just underlining my points.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10819056627072965519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168920820627326062007-01-15T23:13:00.000-05:002007-01-15T23:13:00.000-05:00Not as uncalled for as disclosing shpeen's discipl...Not as uncalled for as disclosing shpeen's disciplinary record (if it is even true what seal wrote)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168920448564297812007-01-15T23:07:00.000-05:002007-01-15T23:07:00.000-05:00By the way, those writing against Seal have forfei...By the way, those writing against Seal have forfeited their credibility by hurling the insults. Disagree with him if you're so inclined, but the personal attacks are immature and totally uncalled for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168919739781691282007-01-15T22:55:00.000-05:002007-01-15T22:55:00.000-05:00wow i just looked at your list. you're right seal,...wow i just looked at your list. you're right seal, it looks like tim's days are numbered.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168919461714299402007-01-15T22:51:00.000-05:002007-01-15T22:51:00.000-05:00We love Andrew Seal, even if he is a tiny shithead...We love Andrew Seal, even if he is a tiny shithead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168919284007022662007-01-15T22:48:00.000-05:002007-01-15T22:48:00.000-05:00An earlier post made the point that Andreadis has ...An earlier post made the point that Andreadis has not done a good job as president...The D certainly doesn't believe he's performed well, nor do an awful many students. He has done a very good job of heightening awareness of sexual assault, hysterically in some cases, but thats what he has prioritized all along; he has been shitty at day-to-day work, and his intellectually lazy efforts on things like "mascots" are three-year-old retreads of failed initiatives.<BR/>That said, he has riled up many, many students and his most recent petty manuever against Shpeen (no saint) seems to have temporarily rallied students against him...whatever you want to say about Shpeen, he has spent four years doing lots of the lousy grunt work that students actually WANT, like try to reform the COS or improve academic departments. <BR/>At the very least, Shpeen earned the right to certain discretion and respect, for the amount of work that he has done (very few seniors even stick around to provide the SA with leadership)...but Andreadis once again proved that he is out for his own self. <BR/>If this becomes the flashpoint for the Andreadis removal, thats fine. But Seal, you're making it seem like this is an isolated incident which has garnered Andreadis so much unpopularity. The SA is designed so that the students can change it when enough of them care. Thats what is happening here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10384575.post-1168918809336667212007-01-15T22:40:00.000-05:002007-01-15T22:40:00.000-05:00you're right, but at this point, it's not about fl...you're right, but at this point, it's not about flagging people--i just wanted to show that the number of people shpeen brought was significant.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10819056627072965519noreply@blogger.com